‘If there is a constituent, it has to be approved by Congress’: Luis Fernando Velasco

What was that feeling of rejection of President Petro that marched through the streets of the country? What caused it? “Anyone’s won. Only the President lost,” said political commentators. And they were not walkers guided by some leader. The Minister of the Interior, Luis Fernando Velasco, recognizes this and told this reporter for EL TIEMPO that the marches cannot be ignored. and that during the “spiritual retreats” of the entire Government, which conclude today, its causes and effects are analyzed. Minister Velasco opens our dialogue by giving his opinion on the marches.

“President Petro represents a change. In recent decades, this country has been managed by a political line, close to neoliberalism, which had a spring of individual liberal rights in the 1991 Constitution with former President Gaviria, but which has been fading. Then President Petro arrives and creates a breakup. Sectors of conservative thought, like that and other parties, including sectors of the Liberal Party itself, see their management of power as threatened and generate a series of debates that permeate some sectors of opinion. And then, obviously, that causes a rejection of the reformist desire, a rejection that other presidents felt at the time, like López Pumarejo, whom they ended up overthrowing.”

And why do you think we don’t learn from history?

I think we have missed two actions: greater pedagogy on how and what the changes are. And then, if we are not able to explain that our reforms are simply progressive, then not only rejection is generated, but marches like those that have been generated. Rather than getting into the genesis of the marches, I would rather think about how to react to these marches. It seems to me that that has to be the role of the Government. How to react to marches that represent a significant percentage of the population that does not like what we are doing? We have not been able to explain to them what we are doing. And in the confusion, skepticism is generated.

But notice, Mr. Minister, that there was no winning leader, but there was a losing president…

I share your thesis. In the marches there was no leader, there was a feeling. There was a very intelligent strategy blurring the actions we take and showing with greater evidence the mistakes that we have obviously made. AND people come out to charge us for our mistakes. And that is legitimate in a democracy.

The president of Andi, Bruce Mac Master, said a few days ago that it is not a messianic attitude, that of the President, as some believe, but that of a leader who does not hear, who does not listen, who does not dialogue, who is isolated, who misses his commitments, who does not keep his appointments… who leaves his guests waiting; Isn’t that, rather, what is causing a negative impact against the President?

I spoke for a long time with my good friend Bruce and I have asked him to help me with his liberal spirit, to help me talk to other sectors that have strong criticisms of the Government and he made an observation, similar to your question, that I thought was worth evaluating. And that’s why my role is to keep bridges permanently built.

But the President constantly talks about a “soft coup”…

He is a president whose son’s apartment is raided at 3 o’clock and captured extraditable style; to whom, without any type of modesty, the video of his son’s wife naked, pregnant, is leaked, and it is leaked by a State agency. He is a president who has been fought and he is a president who also fights. I do believe that it is worth it for all of us to calm down, to calm down, all of us. But when we talk about everyone, it is everyone. Because we can’t say calm down, sir, when we’re hitting someone.

But what does “calm down” mean? Who?

All the leaders of this country. I do believe that we are in a moment in which we have to go more to the debate of substantive issues than of forms.

Is that one of the themes of this weekend’s ‘spiritual retreats’?

That was not scheduled. It was convened a month ago to review the Government’s execution and to analyze the 2025 budget. But we open a space for political reflection. General analysis of the country’s political moment and how we play. Analysis of the debate on pensions…

That reform goes to the House…

But it has to return to the Senate in conciliation.

But in case the House denies or modifies it…

If an article changes, it must go through conciliation. And that’s going to happen in my opinion. A reform of more than 90 articles will have some differences between the House and Senate. We are going to carry out conciliation and in conciliation, the voice and the agreements that have been made with the Senate are very important to be able to approve the conciliation.

And you, minister, what do you think, regarding the pension reform, of Néstor Humberto Martínez’s barrage?

That he is a good lawyer for the owner of private pension funds.

But do your arguments have no force or validity?

He is doing a task that seems legitimate to me.

Let’s see, let’s talk a little about you. There is a version that in a recent cabinet meeting President Petro said that the ministers lack execution. And they need to do more as ministers and less as presidential candidates. Was he referring to you? Do you aspire to be a candidate?

What I aspire to, and I have done all my life, is to do the job I am doing well. When you do your job well, life calls you for new responsibilities.. But anyone who starts doing their current job thinking about what’s next is going to do badly. If the public sees some precocious presidential candidates trying to show themselves, they will reject them immediately. At this moment I am focused 100% on my task and my work. I want to deliver the most widely agreed-upon reforms to the country.

But sectors are already emerging that talk about his presidential option…

Yamid, there are two human activities in which precocity makes one look bad: politics and sex. When one is precocious in sex or politics things go badly. I am doing my Ministry of the Interior. Don’t start talking about presidential candidates because I’m not thinking about them..

But on social media people are talking about his candidacy…

Yes. I have read people who make that statement, but I also read people who ask me to leave. “Go away, we don’t want you.” In other words, this is a country where those of us who are in the public debate inevitably end up being an angel or a demon for some sector of the population.

Another issue: what does a presidential idea consist of, which he did not want to specify, about a possible constituent?

The Constitution of ’91 was one of the few that have been made in Colombia as an agreement and not as a result of a fight between one sector against another sector.

What does the presidential idea consist of?

The President has never talked about ending the 1991 Constitution or supplanting it, because he and his people helped make it.. What he has said is that this country needs agreements to carry out some actions that have been pending since the Constitution of ’91. What actions? Greater equity. Health that reaches everyone. What actions? A society where the elderly have the possibility of having a dignified old age. We have not carried out those actions. I believe that in this country we should focus more energy on building agreements in Congress than on building constituents, which is a democratic solution in a presidential system and which can be presented at any time. But I would spend more effort to continue building agreements in Congress.

One of the interpretations of the President’s statements is that he would be thinking of some type of call to assemble a constituent without going through Congress…

I don’t see it institutionally possible to do that. Let’s see, we win with some rules of the game. What were the rules of the game? The Constitution of ’91 and the laws of the Republic. And we have to respect those rules of the game.

Obviously, there can be no constituent without the approval of Congress…

You cannot have a constituent that goes against what is established in the Constitution of ’91. And if in the Constitution of ’91 they tell us that the constituent in order to exist has to be approved by Congress, this government and any government has to respect that ruler.

This interview is published on Sunday. The Government’s withdrawal period is ending. For what purpose is this meeting held?

The main objective: look, Gustavo Petro, let’s take away the aura of a leader. Gustavo Petro means a political project and that political project has to be consistent with what we proposed to the citizens.

That is to say?

In other words, it has to be a political project of change, It has to be an effective political project that gives results, it has to be a political project away from scandals and corruption. That’s what people ask of us. And then what President Petro does when he calls his ministers is to tell us: “Well, gentlemen, let’s see, if we are a political project for change, how much have we changed? If we are an effective political project, how effective are we? If we are a political project far from corruption, what have we done to really be totally far from corruption?” The President will most likely do his own actions so that his project goes forward. He feels genuine anguish for things to turn out well for him. Of what he has designed as his dream of society, which is not his dream, which is the dream of millions of Colombians who believe in that. But that has to be not just a dream, it has to be a reality. And since we are a government we have to make it a reality.

But there will be no other way than to always resort to Congress…

I defend that path because I am seeing results. The statutory education law is key for the Government, because it is the one that recognizes that education is a fundamental right and it has just been approved unanimously in the House of Representatives. The opposition parties accompanied us to vote for it. I mean, there is a space. The pension reform, which moves passions, which moves interests, has just been approved in the Senate. The one that has had the most difficulties is the health reform, which I believe is a reform that still has health. So I am seeing that things are being built, so why ignore Congress as a space to make agreements?

What is happening in public order in Colombia? Because Cauca, Nariño, Norte de Santander, part of Antioquia, are very affected…

Let me say this: with great skill they have sold us the idea that Colombia, before Petro’s arrival in matters of public order, was Switzerland, and that is not true. In recent decades, Colombia has had very big public order problems and we are facing them. While we are doing this interview there is fighting in El Plataado, an area to which the State or the Army had not returned, we are trying to retake.

What is the drug trafficking route…

Of course, the Micay canyon. The Army was not seen there years ago and today there is fighting. It’s because we are entering, not because they are leaving.

YAMID AMAT
Special for EL TIEMPO