The filmmaker returns to directing with ‘Hasta el fin del mundo’, a ‘western’ with a classic air that talks about powerful free women, diversity, inclusion and the need for forgiveness
Viggo Mortensen (New York, 1958) speaks slowly. And low. But of course and in Spanish with an irrefutable Argentine touch. He pours himself a coffee, offers us another and, as soon as the interview begins, a third arrives. With oat milk the latter. Why so much caffeine? There’s no answer. Although perhaps, it occurs to us, it is to compensate.
What there is no doubt is that the filmmaker, free verse poet, abstract painter, experimental musician, analogue photographer, polyglot traveler, fan of San Lorenzo de Almagro, editor of rarities, disconsolate political activist and even methodical actor (all of this is ) takes his time. For all.
He started in cinema in the mid-80s (we saw him for the first time in Only Witness), he did not achieve the stripes of a world star until 2000 with Aragorn and it has taken him an entire life to debut as a director at the age that others They retire. He did it at the hands of a convulsive family melodrama that responded to the name of Falling in 2020. Now he gets behind (and in front of) the camera again with Until the end of the world, one of the traditional Western ones; a western with a slow pace, a deep look and a wide-open landscape. Patience.
- Suddenly, the western. Jane Campion, Chloe Zhao, Amodóvar and even Kevin Costner, who will present an almost six-hour diptych in Cannes… What makes the most classic and oldest of genres so current?
- There aren’t that many movies if you look at all the other genres.
- A few years ago there were none…
- That’s true. I can talk about myself. I grew up in the 60s watching series on television like The man with the rifle, Rawhide, with a very young Clint Eastwood, or, later, Bonanza. Steve McQueen also starred in a (Randall, the vigilante). And you could also go to the cinema and see a western even if the golden age had already ended. Probably, The man who killed Liberty Valance be the last of its kind. But I don’t want to fail to mention The brave walk aloneby David Miller, which was set in the ’50s. It was different, a portrait of the modern world chasing an old-fashioned cowboy…
- And I imagine he played cowboys and Indians…
- Yes. He also rode a horse. Now I don’t know what kids play, maybe Marvel stuff. But my childhood was in the West. I added a peculiarity. Mine were gaucho jeans, since I grew up in Argentina. It was a rare combination. But I was wondering about the resurgence. I imagine that if we do well, there will be more. But in any case, my impression is that the western is a skeleton to which you can put whatever meat you want. In fact, when I started this project, I didn’t even know it was going to be a western. On the other hand, 80% of the westerns that have been made are very bad films. Although that can be said of any genre.
- How come your idea wasn’t to make a western?
- My original idea was to tell the story of an independent woman who seeks to make her way in a place where the border does not yet exist, where there is no law in a society dominated by violent and corrupt men. And it was then when I saw clearly that this was a western and that the contrast between the protagonist and that environment was good.
- The western has a reputation for being a sexist genre. It is a genre of men. This is what Jane Campion made explicit when she filmed The power of the dog…There are those who already consider her film a feminist western. Is it recognized in this definition?
- I am perfectly aware. In fact, rarely is the main character a woman. They have been made, but they tend to be superwomen…. I don’t define my film that way, as a feminist, but I find it interesting that it provokes that reaction. I imagine it responds to the need to place a label. I prefer to think that it is a complex love story between two equal people. The relevant thing is that each one is interested in the other. And that can be transferred to any relationship, whatever its type: if you are not willing to change, there is no society or relationship possible. And if there is no forgiveness, neither. You have to learn to forgive others and forgive yourself for having made mistakes.
- He has been in cinema since the 80s and in recent years Metoo has changed everything. How do you judge this transformation since we are talking about the relevance of its protagonist?
- Sometimes changes lead to extreme positions and force us to generalize too much. People are blamed who may not be in the same situation as the real culprits. But I think things will turn around in the end. All my life I have worked with very interesting directors and actresses. What’s more, my introduction to cinema was thanks to my mother. She always thought of cinema in literary terms. I remember seeing Lawrence of Arabia I was wondering what I thought was going to happen in the second part. She always talked about the stories. I am convinced that in another life she could have been an excellent screenwriter. On the other hand, it is unfair to put all women or all men in the same bag. It is not true that all women are calmer or more consistent or more talkative. Neither in cinema nor in politics… There are intolerable and very authoritarian women
- Are you thinking of someone in particular?
- Well, there are women who have no shame and lie without stopping. We see that every day. And, furthermore, it seems to work for them. But let’s not talk about that. The truth is that there were many women on the team of this film and there was a different energy. In general, perhaps it is true that women are more capable of maintaining a certain calm.
- He wears a Ukrainian badge and, from what he just said about the need to understand others and forgive, one would say that the commentary on his film is completely current…
- I support Ukraine in its fight to not be swallowed up by Russia, but what is really sad and regrettable is the war itself. Ukraine has also made mistakes. Any war, no matter how well motivated, brings chaos and destruction.
- The film premieres two days before the elections in Catalonia where a lot of the same things are talked about as in it: nationalism, understanding each other in different languages…
- I am a supporter of inclusion rather than exclusion; of flexibility instead of rigidity… And that applies to politics, the family and the entire society. I love dialects, different languages, different points of view… I may not agree with many things, but I am interested in diversity, which I understand as a small miracle in a globalized world. I think it is enriching for Spain that differences continue to exist. Listening to others seems basic to me. The interesting thing is not to deny the differences but to look for them… It is a mistake to say that Spain is for the Spanish, France for the French or America, as Trump says, for the Americans. That is limiting an entire country to a few whites and Christians. And there is much more and there has been for centuries, and why not appreciate it instead of denying it?
- Have you never been afraid to say what you think?
- Nor to recognize that I was wrong and ask for forgiveness.
- But is forgiveness possible?
- The mistake is believing that asking for forgiveness is a sign of weakness. If politicians, for example, recognized when they were wrong or lied, people would applaud them. That would be a good start. There is a fear of asking for forgiveness because you seem weak or ineffective.
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